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Author Topic: Dice Sites with FIAT currencies?  (Read 322 times)
kochpat
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October 10, 2018, 02:57:40 PM
 #1

Hi all,

nowadays there are ton of Bitcoing / Altcoint dice gambling sites - Primedice, Bitdice, safedice, stake.. just to name a few. The "provably fair" algorithm makes gives them a clear advantage compared to traditional FIAT currency gambling websites.

But why are there no dice sites that offer the "provably fair" algorithm with FIAT currencies?

Best
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October 10, 2018, 06:26:42 PM
 #2

Well, that's because there's a cryptographic algorithm that makes something provably fair. The data has to be hashed and then 'reopened' to see if it matches the initial one. Blockchain allows such things to be performed, while fiat doesn't use cryptography. The reason that the same same provably fair thing cannot work with fiat is that blockchain records data automatically and nothing can be changed by people after that, while with fiat people have influence during many stages of proceeding a transaction. Read more in this article to understand why fiat provably fair casino doesn't really make sense: http://bitcoinchaser.com/provably-fair-gambling/.

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October 10, 2018, 06:51:28 PM
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 #3

Well, that's because there's a cryptographic algorithm that makes something provably fair. The data has to be hashed and then 'reopened' to see if it matches the initial one. Blockchain allows such things to be performed, while fiat doesn't use cryptography. The reason that the same same provably fair thing cannot work with fiat is that blockchain records data automatically and nothing can be changed by people after that, while with fiat people have influence during many stages of proceeding a transaction. Read more in this article to understand why fiat provably fair casino doesn't really make sense: http://bitcoinchaser.com/provably-fair-gambling/.

What are you talking about?
Provably fair is not linked to type of deposit. Provably fair is about how the roll result is generated (and blockchain is not involved in this at all). You can apply the very same algo for whatever deposits you want.

EDIT:
Back to topic. I actually don't know any fiat "pure dice" site. But e.g. bitdice is currently working on it.

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October 10, 2018, 06:56:44 PM
 #4

Hi all,

nowadays there are ton of Bitcoing / Altcoint dice gambling sites - Primedice, Bitdice, safedice, stake.. just to name a few. The "provably fair" algorithm makes gives them a clear advantage compared to traditional FIAT currency gambling websites.

But why are there no dice sites that offer the "provably fair" algorithm with FIAT currencies?

Best

I think this isn't a good question to ask , the best question would be why players would trust a certain casino where they can't verify their rolls
casino owners would love to see people not asking about provably fair , and to be honest I don't trust them at all and feel like they balance the winners and losers to end up always profitable but of course this can't be proved ( unless on live casino games )

when gamblers start realizing that they can verify the game they are playing I guess all fiat casinos will start adopting provably fair

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October 10, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
 #5

Hi all,

nowadays there are ton of Bitcoing / Altcoint dice gambling sites - Primedice, Bitdice, safedice, stake.. just to name a few. The "provably fair" algorithm makes gives them a clear advantage compared to traditional FIAT currency gambling websites.

But why are there no dice sites that offer the "provably fair" algorithm with FIAT currencies?

Best

I think this isn't a good question to ask , the best question would be why players would trust a certain casino where they can't verify their rolls
casino owners would love to see people not asking about provably fair , and to be honest I don't trust them at all and feel like they balance the winners and losers to end up always profitable but of course this can't be proved ( unless on live casino games )

when gamblers start realizing that they can verify the game they are playing I guess all fiat casinos will start adopting provably fair
For indirect presumptions then this would be mainly ask but op just tend out to ask about provably fair with fiat based casinos comparing to the current blockchain based games that do shows off hashes on each roll.
This is why gambling industry is booming up here on crypto because of that feature where anyone can see sites fairness which you cant really see on a typical fiat gambling site.


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October 11, 2018, 01:19:33 AM
 #6

Well, that's because there's a cryptographic algorithm that makes something provably fair. The data has to be hashed and then 'reopened' to see if it matches the initial one. Blockchain allows such things to be performed, while fiat doesn't use cryptography. The reason that the same same provably fair thing cannot work with fiat is that blockchain records data automatically and nothing can be changed by people after that, while with fiat people have influence during many stages of proceeding a transaction. Read more in this article to understand why fiat provably fair casino doesn't really make sense: http://bitcoinchaser.com/provably-fair-gambling/.

How is this relevant? So, anything that uses cryptographic algorithms has to use crypto-currencies? LOL WTF?

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October 11, 2018, 07:06:17 AM
 #7

I think what he is asking why are there no dice sites with stable coin currencies like USDT. This is actually an ongoing topic because it would make sense to have USDT since BTC and other cryptos are so volatile.

I've asked some mods of gambling sites to add USDT, it would be very easy since it uses the same blockchain as BTC and they all refused to list it due to regulation reasons.

Basically they don't want to be under scrunity from the US government if they list it, especially on an gambling site.

The best way to gamble with Fiat currencies is to deposit 1 BTC at a casino and at the same time go on some exchange which allows margin orders and sell that 1 BTC for US dollars (or EUR or GBP) and you will be hedged against huge down days like today.

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October 11, 2018, 11:03:46 AM
 #8

No, there is. For example local casino has dice and game similar of bustabit, both available in fiat. Dice don't has verify your roll function but bustabit like game has, also it has different name. Dice is usually called HI-LO but mostly casinos offer 2x win, you can't edit it. Local casino has almost every feature on it's HI-LO game that other dice websites have, except autobetting.

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October 11, 2018, 01:05:49 PM
 #9

I don't think that there is one, by accepting Fiat currencies in their gambling site it will automatically subject them to other laws and licenses to that country of that fiat currency you are accepting. That is why all Curacao licensed gambling sites based on cryptocurrencies are only accepting cryptocurrencies and not fiat. Also other big reasons I see is that it will become a big problem in the future as once they accept Fiat currencies, members might demand that they also have Crypto to Fiat exchanges or vice versa in their gambling site and also demand fiat based withdrawals which will be a nightmare for them. Other problem that might arise with this is that they will use the gambling site for money laundering which automatically will make the gambling site be in trouble with the law.

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October 11, 2018, 02:29:17 PM
 #10

Just checked on my favorite local fiat casino site, but I could not find any dice game like what we have in this crypto gambling industry. I can only find SICBO which is a game that using dice but of course it is not what you are looking for. As per my experience, there is no fiat casinos that using provably fair mechanism. Maybe I'm wrong, but most local fiat casino sites where I usually play is not having such system.

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October 11, 2018, 03:45:16 PM
 #11

There are so many reasons NOT to.

Big reason is, if you deal with fiat, then you need to get licensed, you need to get regulatory approval, you need to prepare your entire system to work with a fiat system.

Do you honestly think you could enjoy low house edge, fast approvals, fast play, and all that, while using fiat systems? The whole reason dice games and crypto games can offer much lower house edge is because of lower operational cost. Choose to use fiat and kiss goodbye to those low operational costs.


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October 11, 2018, 04:40:40 PM
 #12

House edge would have to go up. Would be a nightmare running a dice site in fiat currency.

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October 11, 2018, 05:49:20 PM
 #13

There are so many reasons NOT to.

Big reason is, if you deal with fiat, then you need to get licensed, you need to get regulatory approval, you need to prepare your entire system to work with a fiat system.

Do you honestly think you could enjoy low house edge, fast approvals, fast play, and all that, while using fiat systems? The whole reason dice games and crypto games can offer much lower house edge is because of lower operational cost. Choose to use fiat and kiss goodbye to those low operational costs.


How can you say not while such thing exists in reality?
I already said, let's take for example about butstabit lkke game, absolutely same game played by fiat money is on local casino's website. They have provably fair system too and you can verify each bet + they offer jackpot in this game, withdraws take 0% fee and are immediately on your card. My example is 100% opposite of what you say, such thing exists, it even offerd jackpot and 0% withdraw fee.

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October 11, 2018, 08:19:30 PM
 #14

There are so many reasons NOT to.

Big reason is, if you deal with fiat, then you need to get licensed, you need to get regulatory approval, you need to prepare your entire system to work with a fiat system.

Do you honestly think you could enjoy low house edge, fast approvals, fast play, and all that, while using fiat systems? The whole reason dice games and crypto games can offer much lower house edge is because of lower operational cost. Choose to use fiat and kiss goodbye to those low operational costs.



Ton of existing Fiat online casinos already exist and they make millions of profits; although they have all the disadvantages that you have mentioned: Need to get licensed, get a Fiat payment system, etc.

But just by changing the random-number-generator of a Fiat casino to provably-fair would give them a huge advantage over traditional online casinos with intransparent algorithms. Also a provably-fair Fiat casino could target a much wider audience than the current coin-based casinos.

I still don´t understand why no large Fiat provably-fair casinos exist yet!?
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October 11, 2018, 10:12:12 PM
 #15

There are so many reasons NOT to.

Big reason is, if you deal with fiat, then you need to get licensed, you need to get regulatory approval, you need to prepare your entire system to work with a fiat system.

Do you honestly think you could enjoy low house edge, fast approvals, fast play, and all that, while using fiat systems? The whole reason dice games and crypto games can offer much lower house edge is because of lower operational cost. Choose to use fiat and kiss goodbye to those low operational costs.



Ton of existing Fiat online casinos already exist and they make millions of profits; although they have all the disadvantages that you have mentioned: Need to get licensed, get a Fiat payment system, etc.

But just by changing the random-number-generator of a Fiat casino to provably-fair would give them a huge advantage over traditional online casinos with intransparent algorithms. Also a provably-fair Fiat casino could target a much wider audience than the current coin-based casinos.

I still don´t understand why no large Fiat provably-fair casinos exist yet!?

Above the reason was given clearly that in fiat currency bets you dont have fair policy as the bets can be manipulated but in cryptocurrency dice sites the bets are automatic and it cannot be manipulated. That is why dice site in cryptocurrency got famous.

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October 12, 2018, 08:26:30 AM
 #16

The quality of answers to this threat has been really low... roughly half of the answers are either plain wrong or do not answer the question.

To clarify, we all agree that provably-fair algorithms are superior to the intransparent algorithms of traditional online casinos! However, the question in this threat is:
Why are Fiat online casinos not adopting the new provably-fair technology?

To have a reasonable discussion on this, please only reply if you either (a) know a Fiat casino that already offers a provably-fair algorithms or (b) give ideas on why Fiat casinos are not adopting the technology.
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October 12, 2018, 09:35:50 AM
 #17

Sorry, but I was outraged by reply above me because it was completely misleading. I had to react.

As of question
...Why are Fiat online casinos not adopting the new provably-fair technology?...
I'm going to react because of option (b).

To me it's pretty clear. Why would casino bother implementing something that could negatively affect their profits when it's users don't require such thing.
Once players realize provably fair concept exists it can be game changer but first they need to start complaining (or stop playing). Apparently this is not happening.
In addition casino must be sure the lost profits (due to people stop playing their unfair games) exceeds lost profits due to offering actual fair game. Unless this condition is met, there is no will to change anything.

BTW I fully agree with SyGambler post.

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October 12, 2018, 10:04:56 AM
 #18

Well, that's because there's a cryptographic algorithm that makes something provably fair. The data has to be hashed and then 'reopened' to see if it matches the initial one. Blockchain allows such things to be performed, while fiat doesn't use cryptography. The reason that the same same provably fair thing cannot work with fiat is that blockchain records data automatically and nothing can be changed by people after that, while with fiat people have influence during many stages of proceeding a transaction. Read more in this article to understand why fiat provably fair casino doesn't really make sense: http://bitcoinchaser.com/provably-fair-gambling/.

It is the brain of human that found blockchain, and so, it'll be human himself who'll find a solution for those fiat casinos to implement this "provably fair" thing if they really want their players to know everything about their bets and to prove that they've not cheated over them (users).



-snip-
...Why are Fiat online casinos not adopting the new provably-fair technology?...
I'm going to react because of option (b).

To me it's pretty clear. Why would casino bother implementing something that could negatively affect their profits when it's users don't require such thing.
Once players realize provably fair concept exists it can be game changer but first they need to start complaining (or stop playing). Apparently this is not happening.
In addition casino must be sure the lost profits (due to people stop playing their unfair games) exceeds lost profits due to offering actual fair game. Unless this condition is met, there is no will to change anything.

BTW I fully agree with SyGambler post.


That's true, no casino is stupid enough to strike a hammer on their foot by adding such algorithm as "provably fair" because it'll help a lot of users to validate if their loss was actually real or they were cheated. I tried to find a casino where a player could get a verifier to check if their bet was provably fair, but none was found. Bet365 is one of the biggest names in the gambling industry and has a lot of users playing there all day long and they have a dice game too, but there were many users complaining about their losses as it's really easy for a fiat casino to cheat on its users by not letting the users verify their rolls through any means.

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October 12, 2018, 03:25:33 PM
 #19

There are so many reasons NOT to.

Big reason is, if you deal with fiat, then you need to get licensed, you need to get regulatory approval, you need to prepare your entire system to work with a fiat system.

Do you honestly think you could enjoy low house edge, fast approvals, fast play, and all that, while using fiat systems? The whole reason dice games and crypto games can offer much lower house edge is because of lower operational cost. Choose to use fiat and kiss goodbye to those low operational costs.


How can you say not while such thing exists in reality?
I already said, let's take for example about butstabit lkke game, absolutely same game played by fiat money is on local casino's website. They have provably fair system too and you can verify each bet + they offer jackpot in this game, withdraws take 0% fee and are immediately on your card. My example is 100% opposite of what you say, such thing exists, it even offerd jackpot and 0% withdraw fee.

Then you didn't understand what I was pointing out. Yes, fiat currencies casinos exist in reality, but as I said, you would have to do a lot more things to run a fiat gambling site for dice. Licensing and provably fair for example. Provably fair for fiat casinos are usually RNG verification, NOT self-provably fair like dice site on dice sites.

And, yes, it is possible, but I bet you your casino has a house edge much higher than standard Bitcoin dice sites which is 1% or lower.

IF you bet x2, what is your win chance? You can see house edge from there. Then you know what I'm talking about.

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examplens
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October 12, 2018, 03:52:19 PM
 #20

There are so many reasons NOT to.

Big reason is, if you deal with fiat, then you need to get licensed, you need to get regulatory approval, you need to prepare your entire system to work with a fiat system.

Do you honestly think you could enjoy low house edge, fast approvals, fast play, and all that, while using fiat systems? The whole reason dice games and crypto games can offer much lower house edge is because of lower operational cost. Choose to use fiat and kiss goodbye to those low operational costs.



I absolutely agree with slaman29, I would add a very important part it is anonymity and restrictions.
With crypto, you can play anonymously without any bank and personal data. Also, you can play in the country where is gambling prohibited.

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